Discussion:
Official repository on GitHub
(too old to reply)
ancientcc
2015-11-19 08:43:21 UTC
Permalink
The offical repository is based on Mercurial currently. It is inconvenient
to developer that used to GitHub. In particular, they want to join the SDL
development.



Recently, I wrote code on iOS, and hope to add some code to SDL, for example
Ble, Gyroscope, Accelerometer etc.



Does the official plan to create SDL repository on GitHub?
Gabriel Jacobo
2015-11-19 14:48:30 UTC
Permalink
I doubt that will happen :)

https://twitter.com/icculus/status/630841552651309056
Post by ancientcc
The offical repository is based on Mercurial currently. It is inconvenient
to developer that used to GitHub. In particular, they want to join the SDL
development.
Recently, I wrote code on iOS, and hope to add some code to SDL, for
example Ble, Gyroscope, Accelerometer etc.
Does the official plan to create SDL repository on GitHub?
_______________________________________________
SDL mailing list
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
--
Gabriel.
Daniel Gibson
2015-11-19 17:58:47 UTC
Permalink
Viewing the commit history of a project
or a file–a trivial task on both Google Code and Bitbucket–doesn’t
appear to /even exist anywhere in the Github interface!/ (Yes, I know
not sure if you're just trolling, but right on the frontpage of a
project is says "XY commits" which you can click to get to the history.
And each file has a "History" button at the top which shows you the
commit history for the file.
I don't think it could be much easier.
Jonas Thiem
2015-11-20 09:54:36 UTC
Permalink
I don't want to tell you GitHub is amazing, but I don't understand
some of your criticism.

1.) Want to see commits of the project? Click big "Commits" button
directly on landing page

2.) Want to see commits of file? Click on file and then "History" button

I'm not sure how exactly that's hidden and not discoverable...
Honestly, for the life of me I can't understand how GitHub got to be so
popular that Google Code thought they needed to shut down and officially
recommend to everyone to migrate to it.
First off… it’s a Git hub, and that’s bad enough in and of itself, with the
way it makes the simplest, most fundamental activities of source control far
more complicated in order to simplify the obscure ones you don't need to use
very often. But even if for some bizarre reason you actually enjoy the
badly broken DVCS model, Github is a terrible implementation of it. Viewing
the commit history of a project or a file–a trivial task on both Google Code
and Bitbucket–doesn’t appear to even exist anywhere in the Github interface!
(Yes, I know there is a way to do it, but it’s very discoverable at all.)
Navigating to the front page of the project takes you to the root of the
repository hierarchy, instead of something reasonable such as, oh, I dunno,
a front page for the project maybe? They claim to have SVN support, but it
crashes and burns whenever you try to do trivial things like add an ignore
from TortoiseSVN or switch from one branch to another. And so on. Google
saying GitHub is “a better system” is a bad joke, from the perspective of
someone who’s used both.
Mason
________________________________
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2015 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: [SDL] Official repository on GitHub
I doubt that will happen :)
https://twitter.com/icculus/status/630841552651309056
The offical repository is based on Mercurial currently. It is inconvenient
to developer that used to GitHub. In particular, they want to join the SDL
development.
Recently, I wrote code on iOS, and hope to add some code to SDL, for example
Ble, Gyroscope, Accelerometer etc.
Does the official plan to create SDL repository on GitHub?
_______________________________________________
SDL mailing list
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
--
Gabriel.
_______________________________________________
SDL mailing list
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
_______________________________________________
SDL mailing list
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
Ryan C. Gordon
2015-12-01 05:03:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gabriel Jacobo
I doubt that will happen :)
https://twitter.com/icculus/status/630841552651309056
This tweet would have been appropriate too:

https://twitter.com/icculus/status/418990582845804544

Here was what I said on this mailing list last time this was discussed, too:

http://lists.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl-libsdl.org/2014-July/095838.html
http://lists.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl-libsdl.org/2014-July/095890.html

--ryan.
Amir Ramezani
2015-12-01 08:58:30 UTC
Permalink
hello,
in my idea, github has many advantages than bitbucket and googlecode
(which is closing)
first of all, a developer pushes his changes to repository using git
then, i can get those changes without any concerns using SVN
(because of my eyesight problem, i can use SVN and tortoiseSVN easily
with my screen reader)
second, github is more accessible than bitbucket for vision impaired
users like me
third, github's pages load very fast eaven with a slow internet (in my
country internet is slow)
forth, googlecode restricted some countries (du to sanctions)
but open source projects must be accessible to anyone in anyware in the world
Post by Ryan C. Gordon
Post by Gabriel Jacobo
I doubt that will happen :)
https://twitter.com/icculus/status/630841552651309056
https://twitter.com/icculus/status/418990582845804544
http://lists.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl-libsdl.org/2014-July/095838.html
http://lists.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl-libsdl.org/2014-July/095890.html
--ryan.
_______________________________________________
SDL mailing list
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
T. Joseph Carter
2015-12-01 22:12:39 UTC
Permalink
I'm certain SDL will not be moving to GitHub or BitBucket. It is
self-hosted by the SDL project servers. Obviously if it were in git,
it could be easily mirrored to GitHub or anywhere else, but those
will only ever be mirrors.

Joseph
Post by Amir Ramezani
hello,
in my idea, github has many advantages than bitbucket and googlecode
(which is closing)
first of all, a developer pushes his changes to repository using git
then, i can get those changes without any concerns using SVN
(because of my eyesight problem, i can use SVN and tortoiseSVN easily
with my screen reader)
second, github is more accessible than bitbucket for vision impaired
users like me
third, github's pages load very fast eaven with a slow internet (in my
country internet is slow)
forth, googlecode restricted some countries (du to sanctions)
but open source projects must be accessible to anyone in anyware in the world
Post by Ryan C. Gordon
Post by Gabriel Jacobo
I doubt that will happen :)
https://twitter.com/icculus/status/630841552651309056
https://twitter.com/icculus/status/418990582845804544
http://lists.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl-libsdl.org/2014-July/095838.html
http://lists.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl-libsdl.org/2014-July/095890.html
--ryan.
_______________________________________________
SDL mailing list
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
_______________________________________________
SDL mailing list
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
Amir Ramezani
2015-12-02 06:26:37 UTC
Permalink
i'm not saying that SDL should be gon into github or anything else!
i've said github became popular for these reasons that i've said
google code sanctioned some of the countries, bitbucket is
inaccessible for vision impaired users, but github does not have these
limitations
because of these, + many other features, github became very very
popular eaven popular than source forge
Post by T. Joseph Carter
I'm certain SDL will not be moving to GitHub or BitBucket. It is
self-hosted by the SDL project servers. Obviously if it were in git,
it could be easily mirrored to GitHub or anywhere else, but those
will only ever be mirrors.
Joseph
Post by Amir Ramezani
hello,
in my idea, github has many advantages than bitbucket and googlecode
(which is closing)
first of all, a developer pushes his changes to repository using git
then, i can get those changes without any concerns using SVN
(because of my eyesight problem, i can use SVN and tortoiseSVN easily
with my screen reader)
second, github is more accessible than bitbucket for vision impaired
users like me
third, github's pages load very fast eaven with a slow internet (in my
country internet is slow)
forth, googlecode restricted some countries (du to sanctions)
but open source projects must be accessible to anyone in anyware in the world
Post by Ryan C. Gordon
Post by Gabriel Jacobo
I doubt that will happen :)
https://twitter.com/icculus/status/630841552651309056
https://twitter.com/icculus/status/418990582845804544
http://lists.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl-libsdl.org/2014-July/095838.html
http://lists.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl-libsdl.org/2014-July/095890.html
--ryan.
_______________________________________________
SDL mailing list
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
_______________________________________________
SDL mailing list
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
_______________________________________________
SDL mailing list
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
Giorgos Sarris
2015-12-03 11:34:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

I have some issues with AppleTV SDL2
https://bitbucket.org/slime73/sdl-experiments/branch/AppleTV

It works but I have 2 major issues:
1) It doesnt work with OpenGL code, only with SDL code.
2) SDL_RenderReadPixels reports pixel colors a little wrong.
I use it like this:
SDL_RenderReadPixels(gv.renderer,&rect,SDL_PIXELFORMAT_RGB24,(void
*)pixel,80*4);
I give a solid color of (150,20,30) and it reports 147,20,27.
The thing is that it reports different colors some times like 148,20,25
or 152,20,28.
I use SDL_RenderReadPixels to know what I am clicking so I cannot go on
with my apps.

I would prefer it worked with my OpenGL code, did anyone try it, any
examples?

Any help is appreciated.
Giorgos
Alex Szpakowski
2015-12-03 17:28:58 UTC
Permalink
For #1, what kind of issue do you get when you try to use OpenGL? It works fine in the Simulator at least for me, and I believe other people have it working fine on real devices.
SDL’s code there is the same on both iOS and tVOS.

For #2, SDL requests an 8 bit (RGB 332) backbuffer by default, when creating any OpenGL or OpenGL ES context (including the one used by SDL_Render when it uses GL or GLES as a backend), unfortunately. SDL on iOS will try to use a 16 bit (RGB 565) backbuffer in that case, which will probably cause that kind of difference.

You can change that to a 24/32 bit backbuffer by calling SDL_GL_SetAttribute and specifying 8 bits each for SDL_GL_RED_SIZE, SDL_GL_GREEN_SIZE, SDL_GL_BLUE_SIZE, and optionally SDL_GL_ALPHA_SIZE, before creating the SDL window and renderer, when the renderer will use an OpenGL or OpenGL ES-based backend.
Post by Giorgos Sarris
Hi,
I have some issues with AppleTV SDL2
https://bitbucket.org/slime73/sdl-experiments/branch/AppleTV
1) It doesnt work with OpenGL code, only with SDL code.
2) SDL_RenderReadPixels reports pixel colors a little wrong.
I use it like this: SDL_RenderReadPixels(gv.renderer,&rect,SDL_PIXELFORMAT_RGB24,(void *)pixel,80*4);
I give a solid color of (150,20,30) and it reports 147,20,27.
The thing is that it reports different colors some times like 148,20,25 or 152,20,28.
I use SDL_RenderReadPixels to know what I am clicking so I cannot go on with my apps.
I would prefer it worked with my OpenGL code, did anyone try it, any examples?
Any help is appreciated.
Giorgos
_______________________________________________
SDL mailing list
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
DLudwig
2015-11-19 17:00:41 UTC
Permalink
The offical repository is based on Mercurial currently. It is inconvenient to developer that used to GitHub. In particular, they want to join the SDL development.
Recently, I wrote code on iOS, and hope to add some code to SDL, for example Ble, Gyroscope, Accelerometer etc.
Out of curiosity, is there anything specific about GitHub that you like, that SDL's development process doesn't easily offer?

-- David L.
T. Joseph Carter
2015-11-19 18:06:46 UTC
Permalink
Mostly for git, the advantage is the submodule. People tend to think of that as a GitHub feature, but it's actually just a git feature. GitHub has little to do with it.

The other major advantage of git over Mercurial is that extending git is a matter of working with the version X or later data format which is clearly known and won't change, whereas extending Mercurial is a matter of patching a Python program which can, will, and has changed version to version, causing the extension to break.

Thus with certain restrictions, I can actually pull CVS and Subversion and bzr and even other SCM with a known, fixed data format into a git workflow Mercurial is a notable exception.

I discovered why when I tried to migrate hg to git once. I had to find the exact narrow compatible versions of hg that supported the tool to export to git.

That made a git convert out of me, though I admit it's not perfect (neither is hg) and most don't truly understand how refspecs work sadly, but I wouldn't recommend hg and git both for new projects—I tell people to learn git at this point.

I would not encourage SDL to move to GitHub if it ever converts. Set up a GitBucket server or something if desired, but don't stop hosting it on your own servers.

Joseph
Sent via mobile
The offical repository is based on Mercurial currently. It is inconvenient to developer that used to GitHub. In particular, they want to join the SDL development.
Recently, I wrote code on iOS, and hope to add some code to SDL, for example Ble, Gyroscope, Accelerometer etc.
Out of curiosity, is there anything specific about GitHub that you like, that SDL's development process doesn't easily offer?
-- David L.
_______________________________________________
SDL mailing list
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
ancientcc
2015-11-20 01:56:10 UTC
Permalink
I am from China. Because some reason, Chinese developers can not access Google product, for example Google Search, Google Code, even Google Gmail.



I develope special app, don't want to go deep into code repository application. To me, tow point of repository app are importment. One is stable, the other is good user interface. Until now, I think GitHub is best. Of course, GitHub is popularest code repository in China currently.



I has tow project on GitHub. One is Rose(https://github.com/freeors/Rose), a Cross-Platform C++ SDK that based on SDL, the other is War of Kingdom(https://github.com/freeors/War-Of-Kingdom), a Turn-based tactical strategy game that based on Rose SDK. Regardless of which project, SDL is fatal.



From: SDL [mailto:sdl-***@lists.libsdl.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2015 2:07 AM
To: ***@lists.libsdl.org
Subject: Re: [SDL] Official repository on GitHub



Mostly for git, the advantage is the submodule. People tend to think of that as a GitHub feature, but it's actually just a git feature. GitHub has little to do with it.



The other major advantage of git over Mercurial is that extending git is a matter of working with the version X or later data format which is clearly known and won't change, whereas extending Mercurial is a matter of patching a Python program which can, will, and has changed version to version, causing the extension to break.



Thus with certain restrictions, I can actually pull CVS and Subversion and bzr and even other SCM with a known, fixed data format into a git workflow Mercurial is a notable exception.



I discovered why when I tried to migrate hg to git once. I had to find the exact narrow compatible versions of hg that supported the tool to export to git.



That made a git convert out of me, though I admit it's not perfect (neither is hg) and most don't truly understand how refspecs work sadly, but I wouldn't recommend hg and git both for new projects—I tell people to learn git at this point.



I would not encourage SDL to move to GitHub if it ever converts. Set up a GitBucket server or something if desired, but don't stop hosting it on your own servers.



Joseph

Sent via mobile


On Nov 19, 2015, at 09:00, DLudwig <***@pobox.com <mailto:***@pobox.com> > wrote:










ancientli wrote:


The offical repository is based on Mercurial currently. It is inconvenient to developer that used to GitHub. In particular, they want to join the SDL development.

Recently, I wrote code on iOS, and hope to add some code to SDL, for example Ble, Gyroscope, Accelerometer etc.



Out of curiosity, is there anything specific about GitHub that you like, that SDL's development process doesn't easily offer?

-- David L.
Alex Barry
2015-11-20 03:04:12 UTC
Permalink
Something something something best dcvs. Each system has its merits.
Github is fine, and this topic is not new to this mailing list. Ryan and
Sam self host their mercurial repo and it works just fine. Contributing
code is the same general process in all own source projects using version
control. There is zero need for SDL to officially live on github. There
is nothing to rehash here. Now go in peace and enjoy the dcvs of your
choosing.

- Alex
DLudwig
2015-11-20 04:55:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by ancientcc
I am from China. Because some reason, Chinese developers can not access Google product, for example Google Search, Google Code, even Google Gmail.
I develope special app, don't want to go deep into code repository application. To me, tow point of repository app are importment. One is stable, the other is good user interface. Until now, I think GitHub is best. Of course,  GitHub is popularest code repository in China currently.
I has tow project on GitHub. One is Rose(https://github.com/freeors/Rose), a Cross-Platform C++ SDK that based on SDL, the other is War of Kingdom(https://github.com/freeors/War-Of-Kingdom), a Turn-based tactical strategy game that based on Rose SDK. Regardless of which project, SDL is fatal.
Out of additional curiosity, why not use one of the unofficial SDL mirrors on Github? I recall there being a few, some of which appear to be updated automatically. (I've seen commits of mine get added there minutes after submitting them to SDL's main Mercurial repo.)

-- David L.
Dominus
2015-11-20 16:28:36 UTC
Permalink
This "use github or I won't/can't contribute" thing amazes me everytime it occurs in any project.
Usually followed by "so many more people would contribute if it were on github"...
amazing...
DLudwig
2015-11-20 18:33:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dominus
This "use github or I won't/can't contribute" thing amazes me everytime it occurs in any project.
I think for a lot of people, there is a legitimate concern there. It is a switch in tools, which can mean time away from working on a game. Maybe a little time, maybe a lot of time. Maybe it's an unknown amount of time, in which case, people might be pessimistic, and choose to avoid the switch altogether.

To note, I'm not suggesting a move of SDL to Github either, but I do wonder if there are ways to help those who are more familiar with Github, apply their time and talents to SDL, while also keeping the signal-to-noise ratio acceptable for SDL's maintainers.

-- David L.
Owen Alanzo Hogarth
2015-11-20 18:38:29 UTC
Permalink
Que Linus Torvalds comments about why the uses c vs c plus plus.
Post by Dominus
This "use github or I won't/can't contribute" thing amazes me everytime it
occurs in any project.
I think for a lot of people, there is a legitimate concern there. It is a
switch in tools, which can mean time away from working on a game. Maybe a
little time, maybe a lot of time. Maybe it's an unknown amount of time, in
which case, people might be pessimistic, and choose to avoid the switch
altogether.
To note, I'm not suggesting a move of SDL to Github either, but I do
wonder if there are ways to help those who are more familiar with Github,
apply their time and talents to SDL, while also keeping the signal-to-noise
ratio acceptable for SDL's maintainers.
-- David L.
_______________________________________________
SDL mailing list
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
Daniel Gibson
2015-11-22 16:15:46 UTC
Permalink
Github has some advantages, like many developers being familiar with it
and already having an account there.
And maybe patches (as pull requests) would be a little more visible
there than in the SDL bugtracker.

But in the end it doesn't matter.
It seems to me like there often is no reaction to bugreports in bugzilla
or bugreports/bugdiscussions on this mailinglist for a long time, even
if there's patches attached (but maybe I'm biased and this only happens
to bugs I'm interested in).
So it seems like the time of the core SDL developers needed to review
bugs and patches is the real bottleneck (which is not surprising, as
they basically do this in their freetime, AFAIK), so attracting more
contributors would not necessarily improve things.

Cheers,
Daniel
Post by Dominus
Post by Dominus
This "use github or I won't/can't contribute" thing amazes me everytime
it occurs in any project.
I think for a lot of people, there is a legitimate concern there. It is
a switch in tools, which can mean time away from working on a game.
Maybe a little time, maybe a lot of time. Maybe it's an unknown amount
of time, in which case, people might be pessimistic, and choose to avoid
the switch altogether.
To note, I'm not suggesting a move of SDL to Github either, but I do
wonder if there are ways to help those who are more familiar with
Github, apply their time and talents to SDL, while also keeping the
signal-to-noise ratio acceptable for SDL's maintainers.
-- David L.
T. Joseph Carter
2015-11-22 18:15:02 UTC
Permalink
I'd be in favor of a transition to git if Sam and Ryan are up for it,
but not a transition to GitHub. I do use GitHub myself and I do like
it, but SDL is big enough that it kinda needs to maintain autonomy.

Besides, Ryan pointed out some time ago that GitHub has some quirks
he really doesn't like that aren't like other DVCS hosts. There are
git hosting solutions that provide the essential things people want
from GitHub, including ways to do PRs without GitHub actually.
People who use GitHub can pull in a git submodule from somewhere
other than GitHub, so that's not a good reason to give up the SDL
autonomy either.

As I said, I no longer regard git and hg as functionally the same
thing with slightly different commands. As I have tried to use and
work with the two more and more, hg just hasn't stabilized the way
git has and thus it has fallen behind for me as I need to work in a
heterogeneous environment where pieces hosted in one DVCS platform
must interact with pieces hosted in another. I can do that with just
about every VCS suite you might use, save for hg. This builds
negative views of hg in my mind.

It ultimately doesn't matter of SDL uses git or hg because I do not
build anything that would bundle SDL right out of hg with my own
code. If I did, it'd irritate me because I probably would feel
constrained by the inability to pull it in via my VCS toolchain
without jumping through a ridiculous number of hoops trying to get
the EXACT supported version of hg installed that works with the exact
version of the import tool. Nonetheless if I had that problem I
would find a solution to it.

But hg's inability to get their act together and stabilize things
enough that we don't need to hot-patch their code in highly breakable
ways to work with their repositories makes me consider it unsuitable
for new projects. Which is too bad because I think hg's commands
make more sense than git's. Nice interface spoiled by implementation
details.

Joseph
Post by Daniel Gibson
Github has some advantages, like many developers being familiar with
it and already having an account there.
And maybe patches (as pull requests) would be a little more visible
there than in the SDL bugtracker.
But in the end it doesn't matter.
It seems to me like there often is no reaction to bugreports in
bugzilla or bugreports/bugdiscussions on this mailinglist for a long
time, even if there's patches attached (but maybe I'm biased and this
only happens to bugs I'm interested in).
So it seems like the time of the core SDL developers needed to review
bugs and patches is the real bottleneck (which is not surprising, as
they basically do this in their freetime, AFAIK), so attracting more
contributors would not necessarily improve things.
Cheers,
Daniel
Post by Dominus
Post by Dominus
This "use github or I won't/can't contribute" thing amazes me everytime
it occurs in any project.
I think for a lot of people, there is a legitimate concern there. It is
a switch in tools, which can mean time away from working on a game.
Maybe a little time, maybe a lot of time. Maybe it's an unknown amount
of time, in which case, people might be pessimistic, and choose to avoid
the switch altogether.
To note, I'm not suggesting a move of SDL to Github either, but I do
wonder if there are ways to help those who are more familiar with
Github, apply their time and talents to SDL, while also keeping the
signal-to-noise ratio acceptable for SDL's maintainers.
-- David L.
_______________________________________________
SDL mailing list
http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
Petr Pisar
2015-11-23 08:42:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dominus
This "use github or I won't/can't contribute" thing amazes me everytime it
occurs in any project.
And then there are people who read the GitHub's terms of use and who do not
agree with them (like reimbursing GitHub's laywer expenditures) and thus don't
want to push commits onto GitHub servers.

-- Petr
DLudwig
2015-11-20 18:50:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Owen Alanzo Hogarth
Que Linus Torvalds comments about why the uses c vs c plus plus.
Oh yeah. There are plenty of days I wish I'd have stuck with just C for the last decade, or move to something else, rather than trying to grok C++. :-)
Dominus
2015-11-22 16:32:34 UTC
Permalink
Oh, I agree that the visibility of patches in the tracker is really not there or I've not found a good way to view it. OTOH githubs issue tracker is unbelievable bad IMO (except for making issues pretty with markdown).
Also tracking the 1.2 branch on the hg webview is also something I didn't succeed in.
David Demelier
2015-11-25 15:14:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by ancientcc
The offical repository is based on Mercurial currently. It is
inconvenient to developer that used to GitHub. In particular, they
want to join the SDL development.
Recently, I wrote code on iOS, and hope to add some code to SDL, for
example Ble, Gyroscope, Accelerometer etc.
Does the official plan to create SDL repository on GitHub?
Why is github supposed to be the standard place where to host projects?

Of course it's nice for users who already have an account. Some people
including me (and not a SDL developer) may be experienced with Mercurial
(or any other SCM) and moving to another tool is heavy, painful and
requires a lot of time.

I still prefer people who host their projects themselves. I hope SDL
team will still continue hosting their own projects using Mercurial :).

Regards,
--
David Demelier (a Mercurial fan and poweruser)
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